Comments on: Sapir-Whorf, Lakoff, Metaphor and Thought http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/ experiments in refactored perception Wed, 08 Feb 2012 03:00:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Interesting Links, Nascent Thoughts | 22 idea street http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-11081 Interesting Links, Nascent Thoughts | 22 idea street Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:29:28 +0000 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-11081 [...] of my favorite blogs with an interesting topic and high signal post here. Perhaps a bit [...] [...] of my favorite blogs with an interesting topic and high signal post here. Perhaps a bit [...]

]]> By: Militant Libertarian » A Big Little Idea Called Legibility http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-5238 Militant Libertarian » A Big Little Idea Called Legibility Thu, 05 Aug 2010 01:46:59 +0000 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-5238 [...] with books like Gareth Morgan’s Images of Organization, Lakoff and Johnson’s Metaphors we Live By, William Whyte’s The Organization Manand Keith Johnstone’s Impro, this book is one of the [...] [...] with books like Gareth Morgan’s Images of Organization, Lakoff and Johnson’s Metaphors we Live By, William Whyte’s The Organization Manand Keith Johnstone’s Impro, this book is one of the [...]

]]> By: anupama http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-2460 anupama Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:56:07 +0000 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-2460 your articles are both ''long'' and ''deep'' because of the way you hyperlink concepts, ideas and new information...also ''wide'', i guess, in terms of what all they can trigger... your articles are both ”long” and ”deep” because of the way you hyperlink concepts, ideas and new information…also ”wide”, i guess, in terms of what all they can trigger…

]]> By: TGGP http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-723 TGGP Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:45:22 +0000 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-723 If you like reading linguists feud, check out <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2006/10/pinker_vs_lakoff.php" rel="nofollow">Pinker vs Lakoff</a>. If you like reading linguists feud, check out Pinker vs Lakoff.

]]> By: Chris Rijnders http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-567 Chris Rijnders Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:34:04 +0000 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-567 Hi Venkat, very interesting post again! A lot of food for throught. Regarding "going beyond language", have you ever tried reading "Finnigans Wake" by James Joyce? Definately a big "buzzing confusion"! It seems like pure madness at first, impossible to read but then somehow it has a big effect on your subconscious (for example I recall all dreams when picking the book up again) and you realise what Joyce is trying to write down. Mathematics/music: many of the great mathematicians were also excellent (classical) musicians. There are links for sure (patterns, interactions, etc) Chris Hi Venkat,
very interesting post again! A lot of food for throught.

Regarding “going beyond language”, have you ever tried reading “Finnigans Wake” by James Joyce? Definately a big “buzzing confusion”! It seems like pure madness at first, impossible to read but then somehow it has a big effect on your subconscious (for example I recall all dreams when picking the book up again) and you realise what Joyce is trying to write down.

Mathematics/music: many of the great mathematicians were also excellent (classical) musicians. There are links for sure (patterns, interactions, etc)

Chris

]]> By: Sripathi http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-555 Sripathi Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:49:13 +0000 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-555 If I can speak two languages fluently that may imply I can think in two different "conceptual metaphor" systems. Meaning, I could potentially understand more of the world than a person who's conceptual metaphor (thought) is limited to one system. Extrapolating from that, if I have lived in two different societies my conceptual metaphors are more advanced than if I simply speak two different languages. Frankly, the more I think about it I realize that it is just a more fancy way of saying "I am the sum of my experiences". I am not sure Immanuel Kant would agree though. It also raises another interesting question, what comes first? Thought or Experience? Does one have to experience something to be able to think? The idea of conceptual metaphors is interesting, however, it does not appear to explain thought that is not colored by metaphors. A very young child would still have thought, one that cannot be classified as Conceptual Metaphor. Milk is what it is, it becomes "Doodh" much later in the child's life. A Rose by any other name still smells as sweet. No? If I can speak two languages fluently that may imply I can think in two different “conceptual metaphor” systems. Meaning, I could potentially understand more of the world than a person who’s conceptual metaphor (thought) is limited to one system. Extrapolating from that, if I have lived in two different societies my conceptual metaphors are more advanced than if I simply speak two different languages. Frankly, the more I think about it I realize that it is just a more fancy way of saying “I am the sum of my experiences”. I am not sure Immanuel Kant would agree though. It also raises another interesting question, what comes first? Thought or Experience? Does one have to experience something to be able to think? The idea of conceptual metaphors is interesting, however, it does not appear to explain thought that is not colored by metaphors. A very young child would still have thought, one that cannot be classified as Conceptual Metaphor. Milk is what it is, it becomes “Doodh” much later in the child’s life. A Rose by any other name still smells as sweet. No?

]]> By: Kim http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-548 Kim Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:12:48 +0000 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-548 I had a pretty interesting experience today related to this entry. I have been making effort to learn German since I'm surrounded by German speakers. I had learned the German word for ''slide'' (Powerpoint slide) the night before and decided to use it. I had to tell the person in charge of all the slides that one of mine was misplaced. I started speaking in German, ''My slide is...'' but I froze because I could not think of a way to describe by problem while the sentence was booming in my head in English. My listener stared at me very expectantly because he knew I had started a metaphor of the form ''X is Y''. In this case, ''X = my slide'' and 'Y = something'' which he was expecting to replace with whatever I had to say. The state of mind described by ''something'', almost like allocation of memory, is a strange one. I had a pretty interesting experience today related to this entry. I have been making effort to learn German since I’m surrounded by German speakers. I had learned the German word for ”slide” (Powerpoint slide) the night before and decided to use it. I had to tell the person in charge of all the slides that one of mine was misplaced. I started speaking in German, ”My slide is…” but I froze because I could not think of a way to describe by problem while the sentence was booming in my head in English. My listener stared at me very expectantly because he knew I had started a metaphor of the form ”X is Y”. In this case, ”X = my slide” and ‘Y = something” which he was expecting to replace with whatever I had to say. The state of mind described by ”something”, almost like allocation of memory, is a strange one.

]]> By: kapsio http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-545 kapsio Mon, 17 Dec 2007 05:31:46 +0000 http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2007/12/16/sapir-whorf-lakoff-metaphor-and-thought/#comment-545 Very interesting !! Looks like MWLB will be the next book I'll pick up. I think the same kind of concepts apply in music. I doubt if there is anything absolute about the experience that a certain piece of music can give to a listener. There might be a few obvious things like echo= large space, fast = energetic, slow = mellow, though I have seen even these break down. The emotional experience upon listening to a certain piece of music is a result of a large number of associations that are drilled into us through TV, movies, ads, the meaning of the lyrics in the song, etc. I doubt if a raaga or scale has any kind of absolute emotional content which is independent of the built-up associations in a particular cultural setting. Very interesting !! Looks like MWLB will be the next book I’ll pick up.

I think the same kind of concepts apply in music. I doubt if there is anything absolute about the experience that a certain piece of music can give to a listener. There might be a few obvious things like echo= large space, fast = energetic, slow = mellow, though I have seen even these break down. The emotional experience upon listening to a certain piece of music is a result of a large number of associations that are drilled into us through TV, movies, ads, the meaning of the lyrics in the song, etc. I doubt if a raaga or scale has any kind of absolute emotional content which is independent of the built-up associations in a particular cultural setting.

]]>